بحث و تبادل نظر درباره موضوعات مرتبط با خودشناسی. جهت پیوستن به این گروه و شرکت در بحث‌ها به لینک کنار صفحه مراجعه نمایید

۱۳۸۶ اسفند ۱۰, جمعه

Re: [Khodshenasi] New file uploaded to khodshenasi

سوال
چرا يك ذهن صدمه ديده ذهن پاك و معصومي نيست؟


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۱۳۸۶ اسفند ۹, پنجشنبه

Re: [Khodshenasi] 2 file e mohem




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Re: [Khodshenasi] 2 file e mohem




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Re: [Khodshenasi] 2 file e mohem




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Re: [Khodshenasi] 2 file e mohem




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Re: [Khodshenasi] roya

لطفا فايل ضميمه را مشاهده نماييد.


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۱۳۸۶ اسفند ۶, دوشنبه

Re: [Khodshenasi] roya

رویا خانم من فکرمی کنم شما دچار برداشتهای ناصحیحی از نحوه گفتار Ùˆ سخنان آقای مصفا شدید, Ú©Ù‡ البته دلیلش Ø¨Ù‡ نظر من  نخواندن همه کتابها ودرصورت خواندن برخی از کتابهاعمیق نشدن شمادرمعنای واقعی کلمات وندیدن مصداقهای واقعیه آنها در وجود خودتونه, Ú©Ù‡ البته Ù…ÛŒ تونم بگم Ø¯Ø±Ø§ÛŒÙ† مواردشما چندان هم خارج از Ø§Ù†ØªØ¸Ø§Ø± عمل نکردید, Ù…ÛŒ دونید چرا؟چون هرگز درد نیش Ú©Ø§Ø±Ø¯ هویت فکری رو در استخوان Ø¬Ø§Ù†ØªÙˆÙ† حس نکردید Ùˆ اگر هم Ú¯Ù‡ گاه اونو احساس کردید بوسیله انواع وسائل تخدیری Ú©Ù‡ امروزه در اطراف ما موج میزنه ÙÙˆØ±Ø§ از اون احساس درد Ú©Ù‡ در صورت حسش Ù…ÛŒ تونه دری رو به سوی شناخت باشه فرار کردید, حس کردن درد نیش کارد هویت فکری رو واصولادردهای روانی ( پوچی, ملالت, ملامت, حقارت, Ø§ÙØ³Ø±Ø¯Ú¯ÛŒ, تزلزل, برون ریشه Ú¯ÛŒ دودلی Ùˆ...) Ø±ÙˆØ¯Ø± فهم مطالب گفته شده به شما توصیه Ù…ÛŒ کنم .چون حس کردن هر Ú†Ù‡ ملموس ØªØ± درد به معنی تشنگیه هر Ú†Ù‡ بیشتره Ùˆ"تشنگی" به معنایه واقعی Ùˆ"رهایی" از کلاف توهمی خود دوکلمه Ù…تفاوت هستند برای بیان ÛŒÚ© معنا   

roya love <roya_love_1818@yahoo.com> wrote:



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۱۳۸۶ اسفند ۴, شنبه

[Khodshenasi] 2 file e mohem

دو فايل به بخش فايل‌هاي گروه افزوده شده است:

   1. خط مشي گروه خودشناسي
   2. چگونه ايميل فارسي ارسال کنيم

از کليه اعضاء دعوت به خواندن اين دو فايل مي‌شود.

گرداننده‌ي گروه خودشناسي



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[Khodshenasi] New file uploaded to khodshenasi

Hello,

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[Khodshenasi] roya



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۱۳۸۶ اسفند ۳, جمعه

Re: [Khodshenasi] Re: meditation

salam agha mansour
 
Mamnoon az pasokhe shoma be email e man. kheili khoob eshare kardid ke ma dar bahshayeman va esrar bar ravashhayeman faghat hoviat fekri ra faaltar mikonim va be nazaram agar dar meditationi nazere saket faal shavad na nazer control konandeh in meditation bessiar arzeshmand ast.
mayelam ke agar ketabi raje be vippassana mishenasid moarefi konid.
 
ba tashakor

manban42 <manban42@yahoo.com> wrote:


Ba salam be hameye doostan va agha Ahad:

1- Ba shoma movafegham ke meditation asil va gheir asil darim. vali
aya natije avali rahaee ast? Pas shoma ya har fardi ke meditation
asil ra tamrin konad bayad foran be rahaeei beresad! Az yek nazar
tanha meditationi asil ast ke be rahaeei fard monjar shaved. Pas dar
noe asil ham faghat akharin meditation moanjar be rahaeei, vaghean
asil ast!!!

2- Be nazar miresad ke shoma ba meditation vagheei movafeghid. Ama
dar meditation vagheei che chiz taghviat mishavad? Markaz ya varaye
markaz? Be nazar man dar meditatin vagheei chizi varaye markaz
taghviat mishavad. Haman nazer saket daroon ya fetrat ya har esm
digari ke doost darid. Dar meditation vipassana haman nazer saket
daroon ya fetrat taghviat mishavad. Yek ellat mokhalefat aghaye
Mosaffa ba raveshhaye ravanshenasi hamin ast ke in raveshha markaz
fekr konnande ra taghviat mikonnad va az an faratar nemiravand.

3- Albate be nazar man mofid boodan har ravesh ham be fard tamrin
konnande an bastegi darad. Hamin bahshaye khodshenasi system aghaye
Mosaffa ra agar adam jedi donbal konad ya shookhi begirad tafavot
khahd kard. Meditation vagheei va hata gheyr vagheei ham hamin halat
ra darad. Khode aghaye mosaffa ham az system ghalat Hoornai kheili
estefade bord faghat be dalil jedi boodane khodash!! (na system).

4- Aya shoma khod be in natije rasideid ya naghl ghol ast? Aghar
khod rasideid besiar arzeshmand ast. Aya tamam systemhaye
meditation ra test kardeid? Be nazaram tajrebeye shakhsi mohemtar az
naghl ghol ast. Khod man az moraghebeye vipassana bessiar estefade
bordam. Ba moraghebeye pishnahadi mosaffa shebahat darad vali be
nazar man kamel tar ast. TM ra ham tajrobe kardam kheili be mazagham
joor nayamad. Albate dar an kheili ham jedi naboodam! Migoftand: be
dalil tekrar lafz amigh nist va chizhaeei shabih be harfhaye shoma!
Albate shayad baraye digaran mofid bashad.

5- Be nazar man hamin bahs va jadalha va ravesh man behtar ast ya
to!? Va in teori pardazihaye mahz va naghl gholhaye bedoon tajrebe
va hes shakhsi va darooni kheili bishtar be taghviat markaz ya
hoviat fekri mianjamad ta hatta meditation gheyr vagheei. Zira dar
lahazati dar har meditation momken ast fetrat ya varaye markaz faal
shaved. Valli dar bahs faghat markaz baad! mikonad!!!

NOKTE: Choon farsi rahat taram aval farsi nevashtam( font Tahoma 14)
baad az an fingilish! ( arial 16) va har 2 ra post mikonam!! ta
kodam maghbool oftad. (ta be hal rah monasbi ke betavanam khoob
farsi benevisam ke ghabel khandan baraye hame bashad peida nakardam
be hamin dalil har do shekl ra neveshtam)

Eradatmand shoma!
Mansour

1- ÈÇ ÔãÇ ãæÇÝÞã ˜å ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä ÇÕ&#1740;á æ Û&#1740;Ñ ÇÕ&#1740;á ÏÇÑ&#1740;ã. æá&#1740; Â&#1740;Ç äÊ&#1740;Ìå
Çæá&#1740; ÑåÇ&#1740;&#1740; ÇÓÊ¿! Ó ÔãÇ æ åÑ ÝÑÏ Ï&#1740;Ñ&#1740; ˜å ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä &#1740;Ç ãÑÇÞÈå ÇÕ&#1740;á ÑÇ
ÊãÑ&#1740;ä ã&#1740; ˜äÏ ÈÇ&#1740;Ï ÝæÑÇð Èå ÑåÇ&#1740;&#1740; ÈÑÓÏ!!¿ ÇÒ &#1740;˜ äÙÑ ÊäåÇ ãÑÇÞÈå Ç&#1740; ÇÕ&#1740;á
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æÇÞÚÇð ÇÕ&#1740;á ÇÓÊ!
2- Èå äÙÑ ã&#1740; ÑÓÏ ˜å ÔãÇ ÈÇ ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä æÇÞÚ&#1740; ãæÇÝÞ&#1740;Ï. ÇãÇ ÏÑ Âä ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä
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æ ÇÒ Âä ÝÑÇ ÊÑ äã&#1740; ÑæäÏ.
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Ç&#1740;Ï ÈÓ&#1740;ÇÑ ÇÑÒÔãäÏ ÇÓÊ. Â&#1740;Ç ÊãÇã Ó&#1740;ÓÊãåÇ&#1740; ãÑÇÞÈå ÑÇ ÊÓÊ ˜ÑÏå Ç&#1740;Ï¿ Èå
äÙÑ ÈäÏå ÊÌÑÈå ÔÎÕ&#1740; ãåãÊÑ ÇÒ äÞá Þæá ÇÓÊ. ÎæÏ ãä ÏÑ ÊÌÑÈå ÔÎÕ&#1740; ÇÒ
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ÏÇÑÏ æá&#1740; Èå äÙÑã ˜Çãá ÊÑ ÇÓÊ. Ê&#1740; Çã ÑÇ åã ÊÌÑÈå ˜ÑÏå Çã Î&#1740;á&#1740; Èå ãÐÇÞã
ÌæÑ ä&#1740;ÇãÏ. ÇáÈÊå ÏÑ Âä Î&#1740;á&#1740; ÌÏ&#1740; äÈæÏã. ã&#1740; ÝÊäÏ Èå Ïá&#1740;á ʘÑÇÑ áÝÙ
ÔÇ&#1740;Ï Úã&#1740;Þ ä&#1740;ÓÊ æ &#1740;Ò&#1740; ÔÈ&#1740;å ÍÑÝ ÔãÇ! ÇáÈÊå ÔÇ&#1740;Ï ÈÑÇ&#1740; Ï&#1740;ÑÇä ãÝ&#1740;Ï ÈÇÔÏ.
5- Èå äÙÑ ãä åã&#1740;ä ÈÍË æ ÌÏáåÇ æ ÑæÔ ãä ÈåÊÑ ÇÓÊ &#1740;Ç Êæ æ Ç&#1740;ä ÊÆæÑ&#1740;
ÑÏÇÒ&#1740;åÇ&#1740; ãÍÖ æ äÞá ÞæáåÇ&#1740; ÈÏæä ÊÌÑÈå æ ÍÓ ÔÎÕ&#1740; æ ÏÑæä&#1740; Î&#1740;á&#1740; È&#1740;ÔÊÑ Èå
ÊÞæ&#1740;Ê ãÑ˜Ò ã&#1740; ÇäÌÇãÏ ÊÇ ÍÊ&#1740; ãÑÇÞÈå Û&#1740;Ñ æÇÞÚ&#1740;!!!

--- In khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com, ahad issavi <issavi_ahad@...>
wrote:
>
> ba salam
>
> tedadi az doostan az mofid boodan meditation sohbat mikonand.
> be nazar miresad ke meditation taht anavin mokhtalaf ba
systemhaye goonagoon rayej ast. systemhaye moteaddedi mikhahand
ensan ro be meditation rahnemoon shavand. vali soal injast ke aya
vaghean chizi ke in systemha nahayatan dar ensan ijad mikonand
meditation ast ya noe khassi az halate zehni ya behtar begooeim
daraje ghavitari az halat khodeshari.
>
> be nazar miresad ke in systemha nahayatan faghat halat
khodeshari ra dar ensan taghviat mikonand.
>
> hal bayad porsid khodeshari chist?
>
> aya khodeshaari chizi joda az hozoore ghavitar markaz (markaz
beghole krishna) mibashad?
>
> nahayatan mitavan goft ke meditation inha faghat be taghviat
markaz mianjamad.
> oosoolan har ja ke sohbat az system ast va teye marahele khassi
be jostejoogar nahveye meditation ra yad midahand mitavan be jorat
goft ke jostejoogar faghat dar jahate taghviat hoviat fekri gam
bardashte ast na meditation vagheei.
>
> jaleb ast ke jostejoogar taghviat hozor markaz ra ke be control
kardan fekrhaye digar mianjamad ra be hessab pishraft migozarad va
ehsase rezaiat az in taghire halate zehni (ke baz khod az noe hoviat
fekri ast) ra govahe in pishraft migirad.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>



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۱۳۸۶ اسفند ۲, پنجشنبه

[Khodshenasi] Re: meditation

Ba salam be hameye doostan va agha Ahad:

1- Ba shoma movafegham ke meditation asil va gheir asil darim. vali
aya natije avali rahaee ast? Pas shoma ya har fardi ke meditation
asil ra tamrin konad bayad foran be rahaeei beresad! Az yek nazar
tanha meditationi asil ast ke be rahaeei fard monjar shaved. Pas dar
noe asil ham faghat akharin meditation moanjar be rahaeei, vaghean
asil ast!!!

2- Be nazar miresad ke shoma ba meditation vagheei movafeghid. Ama
dar meditation vagheei che chiz taghviat mishavad? Markaz ya varaye
markaz? Be nazar man dar meditatin vagheei chizi varaye markaz
taghviat mishavad. Haman nazer saket daroon ya fetrat ya har esm
digari ke doost darid. Dar meditation vipassana haman nazer saket
daroon ya fetrat taghviat mishavad. Yek ellat mokhalefat aghaye
Mosaffa ba raveshhaye ravanshenasi hamin ast ke in raveshha markaz
fekr konnande ra taghviat mikonnad va az an faratar nemiravand.

3- Albate be nazar man mofid boodan har ravesh ham be fard tamrin
konnande an bastegi darad. Hamin bahshaye khodshenasi system aghaye
Mosaffa ra agar adam jedi donbal konad ya shookhi begirad tafavot
khahd kard. Meditation vagheei va hata gheyr vagheei ham hamin halat
ra darad. Khode aghaye mosaffa ham az system ghalat Hoornai kheili
estefade bord faghat be dalil jedi boodane khodash!! (na system).

4- Aya shoma khod be in natije rasideid ya naghl ghol ast? Aghar
khod rasideid besiar arzeshmand ast. Aya tamam systemhaye
meditation ra test kardeid? Be nazaram tajrebeye shakhsi mohemtar az
naghl ghol ast. Khod man az moraghebeye vipassana bessiar estefade
bordam. Ba moraghebeye pishnahadi mosaffa shebahat darad vali be
nazar man kamel tar ast. TM ra ham tajrobe kardam kheili be mazagham
joor nayamad. Albate dar an kheili ham jedi naboodam! Migoftand: be
dalil tekrar lafz amigh nist va chizhaeei shabih be harfhaye shoma!
Albate shayad baraye digaran mofid bashad.

5- Be nazar man hamin bahs va jadalha va ravesh man behtar ast ya
to!? Va in teori pardazihaye mahz va naghl gholhaye bedoon tajrebe
va hes shakhsi va darooni kheili bishtar be taghviat markaz ya
hoviat fekri mianjamad ta hatta meditation gheyr vagheei. Zira dar
lahazati dar har meditation momken ast fetrat ya varaye markaz faal
shaved. Valli dar bahs faghat markaz baad! mikonad!!!

NOKTE: Choon farsi rahat taram aval farsi nevashtam( font Tahoma 14)
baad az an fingilish! ( arial 16) va har 2 ra post mikonam!! ta
kodam maghbool oftad. (ta be hal rah monasbi ke betavanam khoob
farsi benevisam ke ghabel khandan baraye hame bashad peida nakardam
be hamin dalil har do shekl ra neveshtam)

Eradatmand shoma!
Mansour

1- ÈÇ ÔãÇ ãæÇÝÞã ˜å ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä ÇÕ&#1740;á æ Û&#1740;Ñ ÇÕ&#1740;á ÏÇÑ&#1740;ã. æá&#1740; Â&#1740;Ç äÊ&#1740;Ìå
Çæá&#1740; ÑåÇ&#1740;&#1740; ÇÓÊ¿! Ó ÔãÇ æ åÑ ÝÑÏ Ï&#1740;Ñ&#1740; ˜å ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä &#1740;Ç ãÑÇÞÈå ÇÕ&#1740;á ÑÇ
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æÇÞÚÇð ÇÕ&#1740;á ÇÓÊ!
2- Èå äÙÑ ã&#1740; ÑÓÏ ˜å ÔãÇ ÈÇ ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä æÇÞÚ&#1740; ãæÇÝÞ&#1740;Ï. ÇãÇ ÏÑ Âä ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä
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æ&#1740;ÇÓÇäÇ åãÇä äÇÙÑ ÏÑæä ÊÞæ&#1740;Ê ã&#1740; ÔæÏ. ÚáÊ ãÎÇáÝÊ ÂÞÇ&#1740; ãÕÝÇ ÈÇ ÑæÔåÇ&#1740;
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æ ÇÒ Âä ÝÑÇ ÊÑ äã&#1740; ÑæäÏ.
3- ÇáÈÊå Èå äÙÑ ãä ãÝ&#1740;Ï ÈæÏä åÑ Ó&#1740;ÓÊã åã Èå ÝÑÏ ÊãÑ&#1740;ä ˜ääÏå Âä ÈÓʐ&#1740;
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Ç&#1740;ä˜å ÔæÎ&#1740; Ȑ&#1740;ÑÏ!! ÊÝÇæÊ ÎæÇåÏ ˜ÑÏ. ãÑÇÞÈå &#1740;Ç ãÏ&#1740;Ê&#1740;Ôä æÇÞÚ&#1740; æ Û&#1740;Ñ
æÇÞÚ&#1740; åã åã&#1740;ä ÍÇáÊ ÑÇ ÏÇÑÏ. ÎæÏ ÂÞÇ&#1740; ãÕÝÇ åã ÇÒ Ó&#1740;ÓÊã ÛáØ åæÑäÇ&#1740;
ÇÓÊÝÇÏå åÇ ÈÑÏ¡ æä ÎæÏ ãÕÝÇ ÌÏ&#1740; ÈæÏ!!
4- Â&#1740;Ç ÔãÇ ÎæÏ Èå Ç&#1740;ä äÊ&#1740;Ìå ÑÓ&#1740;Ïå Ç&#1740;Ï &#1740;Ç äÞá Þæá ÇÓÊ. ÇÑ ÎæÏ ÑÓ&#1740;Ïå
Ç&#1740;Ï ÈÓ&#1740;ÇÑ ÇÑÒÔãäÏ ÇÓÊ. Â&#1740;Ç ÊãÇã Ó&#1740;ÓÊãåÇ&#1740; ãÑÇÞÈå ÑÇ ÊÓÊ ˜ÑÏå Ç&#1740;Ï¿ Èå
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ãÑÇÞÈå æ&#1740;ÇÓÇäÇ ÈÓ&#1740;ÇÑ ÇÓÊÝÇÏå ÈÑÏã. ÈÇ ãÑÇÞÈå &#1740;ÔäåÇÏ&#1740; ãÕÝÇ ÔÈÇåÊ
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ÌæÑ ä&#1740;ÇãÏ. ÇáÈÊå ÏÑ Âä Î&#1740;á&#1740; ÌÏ&#1740; äÈæÏã. ã&#1740; ÝÊäÏ Èå Ïá&#1740;á ʘÑÇÑ áÝÙ
ÔÇ&#1740;Ï Úã&#1740;Þ ä&#1740;ÓÊ æ &#1740;Ò&#1740; ÔÈ&#1740;å ÍÑÝ ÔãÇ! ÇáÈÊå ÔÇ&#1740;Ï ÈÑÇ&#1740; Ï&#1740;ÑÇä ãÝ&#1740;Ï ÈÇÔÏ.
5- Èå äÙÑ ãä åã&#1740;ä ÈÍË æ ÌÏáåÇ æ ÑæÔ ãä ÈåÊÑ ÇÓÊ &#1740;Ç Êæ æ Ç&#1740;ä ÊÆæÑ&#1740;
ÑÏÇÒ&#1740;åÇ&#1740; ãÍÖ æ äÞá ÞæáåÇ&#1740; ÈÏæä ÊÌÑÈå æ ÍÓ ÔÎÕ&#1740; æ ÏÑæä&#1740; Î&#1740;á&#1740; È&#1740;ÔÊÑ Èå
ÊÞæ&#1740;Ê ãÑ˜Ò ã&#1740; ÇäÌÇãÏ ÊÇ ÍÊ&#1740; ãÑÇÞÈå Û&#1740;Ñ æÇÞÚ&#1740;!!!


--- In khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com, ahad issavi <issavi_ahad@...>
wrote:
>
> ba salam
>
> tedadi az doostan az mofid boodan meditation sohbat mikonand.
> be nazar miresad ke meditation taht anavin mokhtalaf ba
systemhaye goonagoon rayej ast. systemhaye moteaddedi mikhahand
ensan ro be meditation rahnemoon shavand. vali soal injast ke aya
vaghean chizi ke in systemha nahayatan dar ensan ijad mikonand
meditation ast ya noe khassi az halate zehni ya behtar begooeim
daraje ghavitari az halat khodeshari.
>
> be nazar miresad ke in systemha nahayatan faghat halat
khodeshari ra dar ensan taghviat mikonand.
>
> hal bayad porsid khodeshari chist?
>
> aya khodeshaari chizi joda az hozoore ghavitar markaz (markaz
beghole krishna) mibashad?
>
> nahayatan mitavan goft ke meditation inha faghat be taghviat
markaz mianjamad.
> oosoolan har ja ke sohbat az system ast va teye marahele khassi
be jostejoogar nahveye meditation ra yad midahand mitavan be jorat
goft ke jostejoogar faghat dar jahate taghviat hoviat fekri gam
bardashte ast na meditation vagheei.
>
> jaleb ast ke jostejoogar taghviat hozor markaz ra ke be control
kardan fekrhaye digar mianjamad ra be hessab pishraft migozarad va
ehsase rezaiat az in taghire halate zehni (ke baz khod az noe hoviat
fekri ast) ra govahe in pishraft migirad.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>



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۱۳۸۶ بهمن ۳۰, سه‌شنبه

Re: [Khodshenasi] meditation

ba salam
mamnoonan az tozihe shoma
dar meditation ke shoma kar mikonid che kassi sokout va nezare bar tanafos ro donbal va ejra mikonad. aya shoma(khodeshari shoma) in kar ra mikonid ya inke in sokut va nezare be tor automatic bedoon hozoore shoma (manzooram khodeshari shomast) ejra mishavad?! omidvaram soalam baraye shoma mafhoom bashad ke betavanam pasokhe roshani az shoma begiram.
 
ba tashakor

hiva honar <irani53@yahoo.com> wrote:
dooste man salam
dar morede meditation ,man fekr mikonam  bayad be donbale rahhaye sade va bipiraye bood .man khodam ba ostadi kar mikonam ke dar kamale sadegi ,kholoos,sedaghat va bi pirayegi  technikhaee manande sokout va  nezare bar tanaffos va zehn ra  amoozesh midahad ke baraye man mofid boode  va mara az har goone tavahhomi bedoor midarad.  midanam ke bazi raveshha  vaghean ensan ro dochare vahm  karde va khod  afkare ziyadi ra be zehn motebader misazand !!


Kheyr va Barekat
Hiva



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Re: [Khodshenasi] soal

ÓáÇã ÔÇíÏ ÈÔå ÌæÑ Ïíå Çí Èå ÞÖíå äÇå ßÑÏ ÍÊãÇ äÈÇíÏ ÓßæÊ ãØáÞ Ñæ Èå ÏÓÊ ÈíÇÑíã ÊÇÊÝßÑÒÇÆÏ ÊæÐåäãæä Ôßá äíÑå ãíÊæäíã ÝÞØ ÊæÌå ßäíã Èå Çíä ßå å ÇÝßÇÑí ÏÇÑå ÇÒÐåäãæä ãíÐÑå Çæá ÈÇíÏ ÇÒÊæÌå ÔÑæÚ ßäíã ÊÇÈå ÊæÞÝ ÈÑÓíã

Alimohamad jahanbakhshi <alimohamad_jahanbakhshi@yahoo.com> wrote:

ali jan eshkale kare shoma in ast ke mikhahi az shekl giriye tafakore zaed jelowgiry konid  in eghdam khodash tafakore zaed ast  lotfan  faghat  be anche dar zehnetan migozarad  negah konid bedoon inke dar an ghargh shavid?////movafagh bashid

ali rezaei <hiwa552003@yahoo.com> wrote:
ÓáÇã ÏæÓÊÇä
یå ÓæÇá ÏÇÔÊã ˜å ããäæä ãی Ôã ÇÑ ˜Óی ÈÊæäå ÌæÇÈãæ ÈÏå
ãä ÈÇÑåÇ ÓÚی ˜ÑÏå Çã ÈÇ äÑیÓÊä ææÇÞÝ ÈæÏä Èå ÑæäÏ Ý˜Ñیã ÏÑ áÍÙå¡ ÇÒ Ô˜á یÑی ÊÝ˜Ñ ÒÇیÏ ÌáæیÑی ˜äã. ÇãÇÇیä  ÇãÑ ãÓÊáÒã ÎÇáی ÔÏä Ðåä æ Ó˜æÊ ãØáÞ Âä ÈÑÇی ی˜ áÍÙå ÇÓÊ.ÓæÇá ÇیäÌÇÓÊ ˜å ÂیÇÐåä ی˜ ãæÌæÏ ÒäÏå ÇÓÇÓÇ" ãیÊæÇäÏ Ó˜æÊ ãÍÖ  ÊÌÑÈå ˜äÏ. ÓÇÏå ÊÑ Èæیã ÂیÇ ãی ÔæÏ ÍÊی ÇÑ ÔÏå ÈÑÇی ی˜ áÍÙå åی ݘÑی  ÏÑ Ðåä ãÇ æÌæÏ äÏÇÔÊå ÈÇÔÏ. ãä ˜å ÊÇ ˜äæä ãæÝÞ äÔÏå Çã æ åÑ ÈÇÑ ˜å ÓÚی ˜ÑÏå Çã ÝÞØ ÈÇ ÊÛییÑÔ˜á æ ÔãÇیá Ý˜Ñ ãæÇÌå ÔÏå Çã äå ÍÐÝ Âä 


mehdijan4052 <mehdijan4052@yahoo.com> wrote:
ba arz salam be dostan mikhastam beporsam dostan b che fonti taip
mikonan ke gabel khondan nist! hata ba unico niz khande nemishavad!



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۱۳۸۶ بهمن ۲۹, دوشنبه

Re: [Khodshenasi] meditation

dooste man salam
dar morede meditation ,man fekr mikonam  bayad be donbale rahhaye sade va bipiraye bood .man khodam ba ostadi kar mikonam ke dar kamale sadegi ,kholoos,sedaghat va bi pirayegi  technikhaee manande sokout va  nezare bar tanaffos va zehn ra  amoozesh midahad ke baraye man mofid boode  va mara az har goone tavahhomi bedoor midarad.  midanam ke bazi raveshha  vaghean ensan ro dochare vahm  karde va khod  afkare ziyadi ra be zehn motebader misazand !!


Kheyr va Barekat
Hiva



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Re: [Khodshenasi] Re: soal

ÝÑÖ ÈیÑیÏ ˜å ÏÑ äیÑæی ÍÇá Ûã äÈÇÔÏ äیÑæی ÍÇá ÑÇ ÇÒ ˜ÌÇ æ Èå å æÓیáå Çی ÈÏÓÊ ÎæÇåی ÇæÑÏ ãÓÇáå ÏÑ ÍÇá ÈæÏä äیÓÊ Èá˜å ÏÑ ÈÍÑÇäی ÇÓÊ ˜å Ðåä ÏÑ Çä یÑ ÇÝÊÇÏå æÞÊی ÈÍÑÇä äÈÇÔÏ یÇ ãæÖæÚی ÈÑÇی ÇäÏیÔå äÈÇÔÏ Ðåä ÎæÏ ÈÎæÏ ÏÑ ÍÇá ÇÓÊ æ Êæ ÈیÎÈÑ ÇÒ ÏÑ ÍÇá ÈæÏä

alimohamad_jahanbakhshi <alimohamad_jahanbakhshi@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com, "marjan_gh1" <marjan_gh1@...>
wrote:
>
> chera tuye ketab niruye hal matrah shode ke nemishe hamzaman dar
> lahzeye hal bud va nashad bashim, momkene dar lahzaye hal vaziate
> nakhoshayandi dashte bashim
>
dooste aziz manzoore nevsande in ast ke kasi ke daraye nirooye hal
ast nashadi daem va mozmen nadarad va be elate pooyaei va taghire
halate daemi namitavanat dar yek nashadi daem besar bebarad nirooye
hal motasele ba kool hasti ast va gham va shadi on ham koli ast ama
shadi pyvaste va andoohe shirin????????????



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[Khodshenasi] Re: sahra

--- In khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com, zahra badiey
<theblueorkideh@...> wrote:
>
> &#1576;&#1587;&#1578;&#1711;&#1740; &#1576;&#1607;
&#1575;&#1740;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1585;&#1607; &#1705;&#1607;
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> &#1575;&#1711;&#1607; &#1607;&#1606;&#1608;&#1586;
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> &#1605;&#1606; &#1576;&#1607;&#1578;&#1585;&#1607;
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>
> ali haidari <ali_haidari1343@...> wrote:
> ÓáÇã ÈÑæ&#1740; ãÇå ÔãÇ äÇÒä&#1740;ä
> ãä ÝÑãÇ&#1740;Ô ÔãÇ ÑÇ ÈÚäæÇä äãÇ&#1740;äÏå 143 äÝÑ ã&#1740; Ð&#
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;å ˜ã&#1740; Ç&#1740;ä Îæäå ÓÑÏ ÈæÏ ÝÊã ÈÇ ÈÍË ÑãÔ ˜ä&#1740;ã
> Ç&#1740;ä ˜ÇáÈÏ &#1740;Ç ÌÇ&#1740; ãä ÇÓÊ &#1740;Ç ÌÇ&#1740; ÚÔÞ
&#1740;Úä&#1740; ãÇääÏ ä&#1740; æä ÇÒ ÏÑæä Êå&#1740; ÔÏ&#1740;ã ÓæÒ
ÚÔÞ ÓÑ ÎæÇå&#1740;ã ÏÇÏ
> ÍÇáÇ Èå Ç&#1740;ä ÓæÇá ÇÑ ÏæÓÊ ÏÇÔÊ&#1740;ä ÌæÇÈ ÈÏ&#1740;ä
> äÙÑÊæä ÑÇÌÚ Èå ÝÖ&#1740;áÊ æ ÝÖ&#1740;áÊ ÑÇ&#1740;&#1740; &#
1740;ÓÊ ¿
> Î&#1740;á&#1740; ãÎáÕ&#1740;ã
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
fazilat har chi ke bashe ya nabashe?//////mohem in ast ke ma
haleman khob bashe 1- ehsase khobi dashte bashim 2- jahane biroon
ra dorost bebinim 3 -hamahange ba hasti bashim shrte inha ham in
ast ke ba chashmane khodeman be alam va be khodeman negah konim
donbale zaro va vazangoole baraye avikhtane be khodeman nabashim ?
harche saftar rooshantar?/


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[Khodshenasi] Re: soal

--- In khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com, "marjan_gh1" <marjan_gh1@...>
wrote:
>
> chera tuye ketab niruye hal matrah shode ke nemishe hamzaman dar
> lahzeye hal bud va nashad bashim, momkene dar lahzaye hal vaziate
> nakhoshayandi dashte bashim
>
dooste aziz manzoore nevsande in ast ke kasi ke daraye nirooye hal
ast nashadi daem va mozmen nadarad va be elate pooyaei va taghire
halate daemi namitavanat dar yek nashadi daem besar bebarad nirooye
hal motasele ba kool hasti ast va gham va shadi on ham koli ast ama
shadi pyvaste va andoohe shirin????????????


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Re: [Khodshenasi] soal

ali jan eshkale kare shoma in ast ke mikhahi az shekl giriye tafakore zaed jelowgiry konid  in eghdam khodash tafakore zaed ast  lotfan  faghat  be anche dar zehnetan migozarad  negah konid bedoon inke dar an ghargh shavid?////movafagh bashid

ali rezaei <hiwa552003@yahoo.com> wrote:

ÓáÇã ÏæÓÊÇä
یå ÓæÇá ÏÇÔÊã ˜å ããäæä ãی Ôã ÇÑ ˜Óی ÈÊæäå ÌæÇÈãæ ÈÏå
ãä ÈÇÑåÇ ÓÚی ˜ÑÏå Çã ÈÇ äÑیÓÊä ææÇÞÝ ÈæÏä Èå ÑæäÏ Ý˜Ñیã ÏÑ áÍÙå¡ ÇÒ Ô˜á یÑی ÊÝ˜Ñ ÒÇیÏ ÌáæیÑی ˜äã. ÇãÇÇیä  ÇãÑ ãÓÊáÒã ÎÇáی ÔÏä Ðåä æ Ó˜æÊ ãØáÞ Âä ÈÑÇی ی˜ áÍÙå ÇÓÊ.ÓæÇá ÇیäÌÇÓÊ ˜å ÂیÇÐåä ی˜ ãæÌæÏ ÒäÏå ÇÓÇÓÇ" ãیÊæÇäÏ Ó˜æÊ ãÍÖ  ÊÌÑÈå ˜äÏ. ÓÇÏå ÊÑ Èæیã ÂیÇ ãی ÔæÏ ÍÊی ÇÑ ÔÏå ÈÑÇی ی˜ áÍÙå åی ݘÑی  ÏÑ Ðåä ãÇ æÌæÏ äÏÇÔÊå ÈÇÔÏ. ãä ˜å ÊÇ ˜äæä ãæÝÞ äÔÏå Çã æ åÑ ÈÇÑ ˜å ÓÚی ˜ÑÏå Çã ÝÞØ ÈÇ ÊÛییÑÔ˜á æ ÔãÇیá Ý˜Ñ ãæÇÌå ÔÏå Çã äå ÍÐÝ Âä 


mehdijan4052 <mehdijan4052@yahoo.com> wrote:
ba arz salam be dostan mikhastam beporsam dostan b che fonti taip
mikonan ke gabel khondan nist! hata ba unico niz khande nemishavad!



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[Khodshenasi] Re: zaman

doostane aziz tavajoh koonand ke in jaryane khod shenasi andak
andak etefagh mioftad vali emkane yek baregi niz darad tajrebeh an
chenin ast : nagahan azad mishavy va dar hamn lahze khodra
cheghadr azad va mazloom mibini va dar miyabi chand sal ast az
khod bikhabar bodeei ama darigh az inke dobare khod ra gom
mikoni?/////////// vali in lahazat hame omid dahande hastand pass
sabr sabr sabr sabr?///////////
--- In khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com, ali ebrahimi <sanaye_a_a@...>
wrote:
>
> BA DOROD KHEDMAT HAMRAHAN
> HASAN AZIZ MATNE SHOMA RA KHANDAM . CHIZI KE AZ MATNE SHOMA
DARYAFTAM IN BOD KE BARAYE SHENAKHT ZAMAN LAZEM AST VALI MA
MOTAGHEDIM KE BARAYE SHENAKHT ZAMAN AMRI AST MARBOT BE HAREKATHAYE
FEKRI . VA HAR HAREKAT FEKR EYNE ZOLMAT AST.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: hasan_za63 <hasan_za63@...>
> To: khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:36:32 PM
> Subject: [Khodshenasi] zaman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> man fek mikonam be in vaghit baid tavajo kard ke
tanha rahi azx khod
>
> sakhteha zamani emkan dard ke vaghan bi vaste ketab va harf
(lafz)
>
> dar ertebat ba harkate zehn bashim. bad az inke modati zehn va
>
> harekatash ra bedon dekhalat morede tavajo gharar dadim hala
nobate
>
> moraghebe mi shavad. moraghebe
>
> chist?? be in harf tavajo konid
>
> dostan. ma az jai be jaie digar nemiravim magar be 2dalil ya
khobi
>
> dovomi ra mibinim va be soie an miravin( dar moraghebe dovomi
>
> nist ) ya khobie avali ra va an ra mikhahim avali ra khastan
ham bi
>
> mani ? chon baz ye chizi khastane
>
> pas 1- agahi 2- moraghebe sahih
>
>
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> <!--
>
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size:100%;line-height:122%;}
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Re: [Khodshenasi] Re: tavajoh ya tavaghof

lotfan  ba fonti benvisit ke baraye hame ghabele khandan bashe dar ghaire in soorat  besyari az doostan  az sherkat dar mabahes  hazf mishavand motshakeram

nobody <neesti@Gmail.com> wrote:

نه، در احتما اصلاً مقاومت موضوعیت ندارد. نمی دانم چرا نویسنده احتماء
را با مقاومت کنار هم می گذارد و به هم ربط می دهد. شما وقتی مثبت اندیشی
می کنید و با خود می گویید "نمی خواهم فکر بیاید" دارید مقاومت می کنید.
اما احتماء کیفیت منفی اندیشی است.
در سکوت هم مقاومت نیست و نمی دانم چگونه مقاومت با سکوت را بهم ارتباط داده اید

بطور خلاصه، احتماء و منفی اندیشی یعنی با توجه و نگاه بدون تعبیر و بدون
جبهه گیری، بدون رد یا قبول به جریان فکر نگاه کنیم و عمیقاً ببینیم(نه
اینکه بدانیم و باور کنیم) که فکر کننده با خود افکار یکی هستند

On 1/28/08, paymun noury <paymun_noury@yahoo.com> wrote:
> آیا در احتماء و لائیت عنصر اصلی مقاومت نیست؟ اگر هست این دو نیز همانند سکوت،
> خلاء، تهیگی و ... بنیادشان بر مقاومت در برابر چیزی است.آیا در احتماء اینطور
> نیست که ما در حالت مقاومت در برابر یک جریان و یا یک پدیده هستم و او را به
> خود راه نمیدهیم. اما در راهکار دیگر عنصر اصلی مشاهده ست. مانند
> توجه،نگاه،حضور و غیره
> آیا این دو راهکا ر اساساَ به نظر متفاوت نمیرسند؟ تجربه شما چه میگوید؟
>
> manban42 <manban42@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> اگر در توقف فکری که جنابعالی می فرمائید به نوعی اول فکر را پذیرفته و
> آن را سرور و سالاربپندارید سپس با زور بخواهید آن را زائل کنید در حالت
> احتما و لائیت نیستید. اما در توجه یا حضور تسلیم شدن مستتر است و به
> احتما بیشتر می خورد. شما بنا ندارید چیزی را متوقف کنید در حالت لا هستید
> و آن را اصل می دانید و آن را استمرار می دهید و لذا دچار بلا!!! از نوع
> هویت کاذب نمی شوید. خداوند ما را از بلیات و بلایای توهمی برهاند
> مخلص شما منصور
>
> --- In khodshenasi@yahoogroups.com, "paymun_noury"
> <paymun_noury@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > با سلام
> >
> > شاید دوستان با من هم
> > عقیده باشند که در برابر
> > مسئله فکر دو راهکار
> >
> > شا خص ارائه میشود:
> >
> > یکی توقف فکر و دیگری
> > توجه به فکر .
> >
> > این توقف و یا توجه از
> > طرف اشخاص متفاوت به اشکال
> > گوناگون ارائه شده است اما
> > در
> >
> > نهایت دو راهکار اساسی فوق
> > قابل تمایز میباشند. مثلا
> > بحث احتماء ( پرهیز )، سکوت،
> >
> > خلاء، لائیت و مانند آن
> > در واقع همان توقف فکر
> > است و یا وقتی صحبت از
> > حضور،
> >
> > بیداری، اوئیت، حا ل و
> > مانند آن میشود در واقع
> > توجه به فکر در مد نظر
> > است.
> >
> > سوال این است که دوستان در
> > تجربه شخصی خود از کدامیک از
> > این دو راهکار بهره
> >
> > برده اند و آیا اصولا در
> > تفکیک این دو راهکار با من
> > هم عقیده اند؟
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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۱۳۸۶ بهمن ۲۸, یکشنبه

[Khodshenasi] meditation

ba salam
 
tedadi az doostan az mofid boodan meditation sohbat mikonand.
be nazar miresad ke meditation taht anavin mokhtalaf ba systemhaye goonagoon rayej ast. systemhaye moteaddedi mikhahand ensan ro be meditation rahnemoon shavand. vali soal injast ke aya vaghean chizi ke in systemha nahayatan dar ensan ijad mikonand meditation ast ya noe khassi az halate zehni ya behtar begooeim daraje ghavitari az halat khodeshari.
 
be nazar miresad ke in systemha nahayatan faghat halat khodeshari ra dar ensan taghviat mikonand.
 
hal bayad porsid khodeshari chist?
 
aya khodeshaari chizi joda az hozoore ghavitar markaz (markaz beghole krishna) mibashad? 
 
nahayatan mitavan goft ke meditation inha faghat be taghviat markaz mianjamad.
oosoolan har ja ke sohbat az system ast va teye marahele khassi be jostejoogar nahveye meditation ra yad midahand mitavan be jorat goft ke jostejoogar faghat dar jahate taghviat hoviat fekri gam bardashte ast na meditation vagheei.
 
jaleb ast ke jostejoogar taghviat hozor markaz ra ke be control kardan fekrhaye digar mianjamad  ra be hessab pishraft migozarad va ehsase rezaiat az in taghire halate zehni (ke baz khod az noe hoviat fekri ast) ra govahe in pishraft migirad.


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Re: [Khodshenasi] بگم یا نگم؟

ÓáÇ㠍ÑÇ ÇÒÊæä ÎÈÑí äíÓÊ ãä Îíáí æÞÊå íÒí ÇҐÑæå ÏÑíÇÝÊ äßÑÏã ßÌÇííÏ¿

ali bayat <ali_raz_b@yahoo.com> wrote:

ÇÍÓÇÓ ÏáÊäی æ ÊäåÇیی ÑیÔå ÏÑ یÒی ÔÏä ÇÓÊ یÒی ÔÏä åã ÑیÔå ÏÑ ãÞÇیÓå ÇÓÊ ãÞÇیÓå åã ÈÏáیá ÚÏã ÔäÇÎÊ ÇÒ ÇäÓÇäåÇÓÊ ÏÑ یÒی ÔÏä Ðåä ÕÏãå ãیÈیäÏæ ãÇ Çä ÕÏãå ÏیÏä ÑÇ Èå ÏáÊäی ãÚäÇ ãی˜äیã

sanaz hemmat pour <sanazhemmatpour@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ó Çíä åãå ÇÍÓÇÓ ÏáÊäí ßå ãä ÏÇÑ㠍íå ãä æÇÞÚÇ ÈÇÏíÏäÔ ÇÑæã ãíÔã ÍÊí ǐå íæÇÔßí ÈÇÔå ãíÏæäã ßå æÇÞÚÇ ÞÇØí ßÑÏã ÇÍÓÇÓÇÊã Îíáí ÈÇåã ÊÖÇÏ ÏÇÑä ÇÒíå ØÑÝ ãíã ÈÇíÏ Èå ÝßÑã ÇÑÇãÔ ÈÏã æäÒÇÑã ÇíäÞÏÑ Èå ÚÞÈ ÈѐÑÏå ÇÒØÑÝ Ïíå æÞÊí Èå ÚÞÈ ÈÑãíÑÏã æáÍÙÇÊí Ñæ ßå ÈÇåÇÔ ÈæÏã Èå ÎÇØÑ ãíÇÑã ÏæÓÊ ÏÇÑã æÇÞÚÇ íÌã....ØæÑí Çíä Ðåä ÑíÔæä Ñæ ÇÒÈÍÑÇä ÈíÑæä ÈíÇÑã  ÑÇåã Ñæ ã ßÑÏã æ ÑÇÒÇÍÓÇÓ ÏáÊäí åÓÊã ÈÈÎÔíÏ ßå Çíä åãå ÍÑÝ ÍÇÔíå Çí ãíÒäã ÇãÇ æÇÞÚÇ ÈÑÇí ÈÍË ÏÑãæÑÏåÇíí ßå ãØÑÍ ãíÔå Êæ Ñæå Ðåäã íÇÑí äãí ßäå

ali bayat <ali_raz_b@yahoo.com> wrote:
ÓÇäÇÒ æÞÊی Ðåä ãÇ ÏÑ ÈÍÑÇä Úãá ãی˜äå åãå ÍÑ˜Ê ãÇ ÈÏäÈÇá ÈیÑæä ÇãÏä ÇÒ ÈÍÑÇä ÎæÏãÇä ÇÓÊ äیä Ðåäی ÏÑ ÇÑÊÈÇØ ÈÇ åی یÒ äیÓÊ ÏÑæÛÊÑیä ÝÑیÈÔ ÏæÓÊ ÏÇÔÊä ÏیÑÇä ÇÓÊ Ðåä æÇÈÓʐی ÇÔ ÑÇ: ÏÑ ÈÍÑÇä ãÇäÏäÔ ÑÇ Èå ÍÓÇÈ ÏæÓÊ ÏÇÔÊä ãیÐÇÑÏ

sanaz hemmat pour <sanazhemmatpour@yahoo.com> wrote:
سكوت رو دوست دارم توراست ميگي نبايد برام مهم باشه كه سكوت من رو كسي ميفهمه يا نه من به خاطر ارامش خودم سكوت كردم اما درمورد دوست داشتن من شايد معني عشق رو ندونم ولي خيلي زياددوسش دارم حتا دلم نميخواست بهش بگم اما يه جورايي فهميد وقتي فهميدم ممكنه بودنم براش سخت باشه نخواستم بادوست داشتنم آزارش بدم برام دعا كنيد ممنون ميشم اگه بيشتر راهنماييم كنيد تاآرامشم رو بدست بيارم 

ali bayat <ali_raz_b@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ó‡ä‡' ̦䠏䈇᠍ی å"ŠÛŒ
Ә抠È'Ǧ#1740; Φϊ å"Š یǠÈ'Ǧ#1740; Ϧ#1740;?ч䠍?Ç' χѦ#1740; È¥ Ǧ#1740;䘥 ?ÛŒ ㊦̥ Ә把 å"Š یǠ䥦lt;/div>
㘡ȠȚϦ#1740; Ǧ#1740;䘥 ϦӊԠχԊی 桦#1740; Ǧ 䝥㦣1740;Ϡ懞ڇ ϦӊԠχԊی یǠȏᦣ1740;á ˆÍ'Ǥʠȥ Ǧ 懈ӊ堈揦#1740;

sanaz hemmat pour <sanazhemmatpour@yahoo.com> wrote:
ä¦ˆÇí šÒ­Ò Ï'ÓŠ ã­í ‡?堤ݥ㥠?ئѿ  㤠ȇӟ抣 ß¡í Ñ ҏ㠦᭠䝥㭏 㤠ȇÍ'Ý ä'ä£ ß¡í ‡Ò'Ç'凣栈Ǎԇ㠐݊㠇㇠䝥㭏 퇠䎦Ç"ʠߥ ȝ壥 㤠ȇ ӟ把 ȥԠݥ㦤ϣ ߥ Þí¥ Ï¤í‡ Ï¦Ó" χѣ ǣǠ䝥㭏 ȇӟ抠Ç'Ҥϐí" Ç¦ã£ È­Ñ¦ä ‡ã‡ ÍŠí ŒÇ­ ·᭠㤠Ѧ 壠䝥㭏

nobody <neesti@Gmail.com> wrote:
بگم یا نگم؟

بعضی می‌گویند: "نوبادی، اگه ننویسی و ئamp;shy;رف نزنی بهتر است". ئamp;shy;رف اینها (اگرچه می‌دانم از روی ارضاء خشم است، ولی) ئamp;shy;رف خوب و صئamp;shy;یئamp;shy;ی است. این سکوت است که بهترین کیفیت است. هرکس چیزی بخواهد بگوید یا بنویسد، لاجرم و بناچار سکوت درونش را باید بهم بزند و فکر شروع بئamp;shy;رکت کند.

اما موضوعی اینجا مطرئamp;shy; است و اون اینکه اگه یه نفر بخواهد به کس دیگری بگوید "سکوت کن"، آیا جز بوسیله‌ی گفتن و نوشتن طور دیگری می‌تواند بگوید؟ شاید بگویی آره، با سکوت کردن. بزبان بی‌زبانی به طرف ئamp;shy;الی کرده‌ای که سکوت کن.

اما اگه طرف ندونه که سکوت تو به منظور رسوندن این پیامه که "سکوت کن" چطور!؟
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